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Sound Suppressor Discussion
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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:23 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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I've ninja edited the post above too much - time for a new one.

By the way - if you are patient enough (which you probably are if you are involved with NFA, or will be soon anyway), my Form 4 for the Thompson Machine SG should clear within this month or next hopefully, so I will post a detailed and thorough review of both the suppressor and the gun/suppressor combo (and compare my subjective opinions with the short-lived performance of the Trident on the gun)

Another opinion/suggestion I offer to people, is that when you put a can on a subgun (even on a semi-auto) you are going to fire many more rounds through it then you will with a pistol. Trust me. You won't be as concerned with unscrewing, so you'll go through more ammo, which is going to heat up the can, which is going to cook your buildup into the nooks, crannies, really heavily - and you are going to want to clean the can eventually. We'll see how the SG deals with this. I know that Richard has one that is welded shut from the debris, and he said he's going to wire EDM the can after it fills up :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:42 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

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este wrote:
fstbk65 wrote:
You damaged the gun because the expansion caused increased unlock time and force. If the silencer was threaded directly to the barrel that wouldn't happen. It would work just like it would if it were on a Beretta Cougar is what I'm thinking.


Yea.... Not really. Don't try an re-invent the wheel. You are NOT going to be able to thread this barrel. Just pony up and get a can that is meant for the gun.


I don't have a TP9 but was wanting one until I read about the trouble with suppressing it. I have a trident on the way and was very interested in the TP9.

I still like the TP9 and would like to SBR 1 some day but for now I'm going to stick to my MKE Trident combo.


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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:19 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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fstbk65 wrote:
este wrote:
fstbk65 wrote:
You damaged the gun because the expansion caused increased unlock time and force. If the silencer was threaded directly to the barrel that wouldn't happen. It would work just like it would if it were on a Beretta Cougar is what I'm thinking.


Yea.... Not really. Don't try an re-invent the wheel. You are NOT going to be able to thread this barrel. Just pony up and get a can that is meant for the gun.


I don't have a TP9 but was wanting one until I read about the trouble with suppressing it. I have a trident on the way and was very interested in the TP9.

I still like the TP9 and would like to SBR 1 some day but for now I'm going to stick to my MKE Trident combo.


There's no trouble suppressing it, you're just limited to only a few cans :lol:

Since you mentioned your MKE (jealous) - anyone know if Coharie is still taking guns in for warranty service? I think I want to make one more go at sending my CA89 in to them to get the damn thing fixed to my satisfaction (not likely, but you never know).

9mm semi-auto subguns. A cruel mistress.

I tell you what though - the TP9, silenced, with the folding stock, Aimpoint T1, and brass catcher - that s--t is pimp. Compact tacti-cool gun, for sure. It's fun. Squeezing off a 30rd mag silenced with that gun - fun as hell. It's so damn small.... it's a really neat PDW.

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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:17 am 
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Silent But Deadly

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I had sent my coharie back a couple of months ago. Well actually I got it back then, they had it for 2 months...

It still didn't work real good. I swapped out my MKE bolt and it spit brass out beautifully. I have a HK bolt and that didn't work. I also used the MKE bolt carrier and recoil spring but with the coharie bolt and locking piece and it worked also. The MKE spring was stiffer. If you haven't swapped bolts try that. The difference between my two bolts was how well it held onto the casing. I could shake out the casing in the coharie bolt by hand but not the MKE bolt. The HK bolt was between the two as far as looseness.

If you can do without your gun for a while send it back. At least make him spend a little more money and time on it for making junk to begin with. But save your pennies for a MKE. Hard to find one now but jump when you do.


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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:23 am 
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no, I know exactly what is wrong with my CA89. I can make it function, but I want more than that. I want it to function, with proper bolt-gap spec, with HK parts - instead of having to use a Frankenstein combination of parts to get it to work correctly. basically, I want a properly built gun - but that isn't going to happen. the receiver is not even rolled correctly - the mag well is crooked, and that's not even the worst of it. when I told him that, he called me a liar. the guy is insane.

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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:14 pm 
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Yeah I had more problems with mine other than not functioning. My bolt gap was wrong and the rear of my reciever was crooked. The rear sight was even welded on canted and it wouldn't zero. I got most of it fixed but ended up selling it anyway. He won't fix everything. I sent mine back twice and it still had problems that he never addressed. If you can get it running that should be all you can hope for.

They still sell for pretty high used since there is still a demand for a clone and there aren't any MKE's out there either.


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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:21 pm 
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If I sold it, I would have to offer full disclosure to the buyer, and I don't think anyone would buy it in its current condition.

That's why I'm going to send it in. It had been back to him twice (the cocking tube wasn't welded, etc, etc). Shortly after I gave up on the thing, some guy who bought his around the time I bought mine had sent his in, and he got it fixed perfectly. I wrote an email to Todd asking if I could have the same done to mine, and I was met with such animosity, contempt, and anger, that I felt like taking a trip to Arizona to punch him in the face.

So, I'm going to write another clear and concise message. I'm going to label each part of the gun with a description of the CLEAR problem of each area, get authorization (if there is such a thing) to send it to them, and just send it.

Sigh. I almost forgot about that stupid gun. That's the only gun purchase I have ever regretted.

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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:00 pm 
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Mine was running pretty good with the right ammo when I sold it. He always just told me to send it back with a list of the problems. He had it for a long time last time and when I finally called about it the woman said "It's right here, I don't know why it hasn't been sent out." There's no telling how long it sat there.

Good luck with it. I know there are people out there that really can fix it right but it comes out of your pocket then...


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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:40 pm 
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right now, I can make the CA89 run perfectly suppressed or unsuppressed by simply swapping out parts.

However, the fixes I have employed to keep the mags inserted at the correct geometry, and the non-compatibility with factory HK or spec-correct bolt carrier due to shelf height, among other things, bothers me.

I keep telling myself to give Todd one more chance to fix the gun. If it's not fixed after that, I'm going to get a quote from an HK smith to solve my woes, or cut my losses and just sell it with full disclosure. Who knows, maybe some crazy person would buy it (maybe some of the problems are not as big a deal to some people as they are to me...)

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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:45 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

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If you mean shelf height of the trigger pack you can shim that higher or file the slot taller in the grip housing to lower it. I know it's not perfect but it works. Of course you could just get another lower housing and put the slot where you need it.

My mag was loose in the magwell and how Todd fixed it was by welding a tack in the front near the top so it hits the pad on the mag. so that may be what he does to yours also...


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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:54 pm 
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No, my magwell is out of alignment left-right, not forward-aft. The receiver roll was not done correctly.

Yeah, I know how to mess with shelf height.... but for the reason above, it's not as straight forward (when the shelf isn't level....)

The guns with serial numbers in my range were built and welded by blind monkeys.

The good thing about owning a Todd Bailey gun, is that you get a lot of hands-on troubleshooting of the HK roller-locked system and the gun in general. I bet I'm qualified to be an armorer. Seriously. That is a shame.

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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:40 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

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Man you're making me feel good about the coharie and special weapons guns I had.... :D


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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:30 pm 
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You're both making me feel good about rolling my own LSC flat! Not really, it did come out great, but it was a huge time suck and totally not worth it.

Tool1057, if your coharie isn't SBRed, it would probably be worth it to A. Sell it or B. Buy a new Vector receiver and swap your parts over to it.


In on topic news, I think I'm going to pony up and buy the brass catcher and side railed top cover for the TP9. Also, I'd really like to do an angled grip rail like what's his name, but I can't seem to find the time!

Oh, and what do you think about the Osprey45 on this? I figure that it's medium volume, but the 45 hole vs the 9mm bullet shouldn't cause too much of a pressure issue. I may look at doing that adapter for fun.


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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:36 pm 
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este wrote:
You're both making me feel good about rolling my own LSC flat! Not really, it did come out great, but it was a huge time suck and totally not worth it.

Tool1057, if your coharie isn't SBRed, it would probably be worth it to A. Sell it or B. Buy a new Vector receiver and swap your parts over to it.


In on topic news, I think I'm going to pony up and buy the brass catcher and side railed top cover for the TP9. Also, I'd really like to do an angled grip rail like what's his name, but I can't seem to find the time!

Oh, and what do you think about the Osprey45 on this? I figure that it's medium volume, but the 45 hole vs the 9mm bullet shouldn't cause too much of a pressure issue. I may look at doing that adapter for fun.


Yeah, if good old Todd won't fix it, the new vector receiver sounds cool..... but I would have to pay someone to gut my current gun, install the barrel, etc, and then refinish it. By the time all that is said and done, including the cost of the receiver, I'm sure it will be over $500. Or more. I don't know how much those receivers cost.

I read a post by Richard Thompson on uzitalk a few years back that he had (or had planned to) machined a slanted rail for the TP9 out of aluminum. Hey Richard, if you're out there, did you ever do that, or would you?

About the Osprey - dude, I dunno. I really think it's not big enough. You really need a large volume, early in the gas path.... remember, there's also that flat barrel surface working against the gas. It would be worth a shot... but I would really think about that long and hard. I was without a Trident for a loooong time :lol: I would be more worried about damage to the gun though...

My SG and some other toys went pending 21-SEPT. I wonder if I'll get them before christmas. I do not know.

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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:15 pm 
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Still pending - BOO!!!!!!

In other news, Tom Bowers just informed me that they have some 2" diameter Griptastic covers being made, and to check back in a couple of weeks for available stock (they have to meet QA/QC, etc).

2"x12". Perfect for the SG. They will only be "coyote brown," but that's fine by me, if it saves my skin. They are ribbed... and so coupled with the ribs on the SG tube, ventilation should be decent.

This is potentially good news.

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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:49 pm 
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TOOL1075,

I am looking forward to your review of the SG. That
looks like the route I'm going.

I would love for someone to do a run of rails for the
front. I would pay a premium, it just looks so much
cleaner!!!

DSArms does have the brass catcher in stock mine
should be here any day.

Thanks,
Shea


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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:30 pm 
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Shea - were you able to get in touch with Wolverine Supplies? I remember us conversing about that a while back.

Yeah, I'll post a full review. Chondro has one, perhaps he can post his impressions. (mine would have been here sooner, but my dealer sat on my forms for a while so they could send some other transfers of mine in at the same time.... whatever).

From what I know about it so far (and I have handled it at my dealer's), it is not that heavy for its size (2"x12", but all aluminum), it looks pretty cool from the exterior, and I was not able (but did not try really hard) to open it by unscrewing it by hand. It may just take some tighter grip with a towel or similar. I do know that the front (exit) end cap is the one that unscrews, and the core is screwed to that end-cap. I plan to loc-tite the core to the end-cap.

The rear cap, I believe, is probably loc-tited in place. This was disappointing to me, as I would have liked the option for some kind of modular mount system (ala Tom Bowers' AIMS system), but no dice. The current solution would require you to send the can to Thompson Machine to have the end cap changed if you wanted to use it on a different weapon. This is not a big deal to me, because this will probably end up being dedicated to the TP9 - but I was actually thinking about getting an M11 Lage setup, so it would have been nice to use the can on that as well. We'll see what the future holds.

One specific thing I will report on is my impression of the durability of the rear end-cap. It is aluminum, which is unfortunate in my opinion. It may be okay though. I also have no doubt Richard would fix any problems, but still.

I think it would be awesome if it was made out of titanium instead, with a steel thread adapter system. The thing was only $400 though. Sound reduction data is graciously available on NFA talk.

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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:49 pm 
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Silent Operator

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TOOL1075,

Yes thank you, did get ahold of Wolverine Supplies and
ordered the spare parts kit, new top cover with rail and
the sling attachment. Received everything in a little over
a month.

I should have the brass catcher from DSArms any day
now.

The Thompson Machine SG looks great and really about
the only solution. I look forward to your review and I
need to get one ordered.

Really the only thing left is a new slanted rail for the
front, that's the only thing I don't like. Did you get
a response from Richard?

Thanks,
Shea


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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:23 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:09 pm 
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You mother fucker.

full review, now :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:54 pm 
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Silent Operator

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Yes, what TOOL1075 said...

Any more ideas on the rail for the front?!

Thanks,
Shea


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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:35 am 
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I will get a report when I get back to the shop with more detail of pics. The rail for the front is the same one I talked about before where I had to machine it to fit. Been thinking about making some but just can't find the time

CSF

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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:12 pm 
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I have a couple pics here showing the mounting system.

It is a trilug kinda like the hk. What you do is twist it on. You can see the shoulder of the barrel mount recessed. When you twist just the can to lock it down it pushes the locking mount forward, in the other pic you can see the can locked down. I removed the can mount and you can see the barrel liner slides in to the can making a tight seal and aids in alignment. Shea I can make you a rail but it will look like mine. Not so pretty.


CSF

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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:51 pm 
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very nice pictures.

looking at the way the B&T suppressor mount works.... it seems like you could just buy that collar piece and it wouldn't be overly complicated to machine a tooth-ring for a can like the Thompson Machine SG (or any other large diameter can).

I bet you could buy those collars from a B&T distributor like Wolverine Supplies (maybe DSA if you are patient as a Monk)

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 Post subject: Re: TP9 thread ??
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:50 am 
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Silent Operator

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csfirearms,

A front rail would be awesome! Let me know and I will
be glad to send funds.

The can looks great, you will have to let us know how
it sounds!

Thanks,
Shea


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